fixed the formatting on github

there's another one but i can't remember it

:octocat:

", ()

I'm getting everything running locally right now, i'm going to try to work on some of the bugs this week... i'd love to get involved, just have to find time outside of work

awesome

this seems like it was all a ploy to fix jabbr bugs :P

lol

bah, needs more funnelweb!

haha ulterior motive

:)

start pasting in funnelweb bugs, maybe you'll get lucky :P

funnelweb has bugs?

nah it needs more features

osss

sss?

open source software sweetness

@DamianEdwards indeed, no lack of things we could be working on :)

How do people manage strong naming (pfx) a library in OSS scenarios? ie, I want MA.M strongly named so anybody in any circumstance can use it, but I don't want people getting build errors when they checkout the project.

Hi

question for open source nerds. Does a binary distribution of a program require all the modules' MIT licenses to be referenced from within the app?

Everyone is out on twitter squeezing into 140 characters, and I'm just sitting here master writing with no limit.

I would join in here but Jane not optimised for mobile.... Maybe ill do a pull request

"Sounds like a great idea. Wanna give it a shot and we'll help?"

nice

I agree opening a discussion like in that pull request example is exactly what we want. But someone who has never done it, isn't going to be coming to that overnight.

That's great, @dfowler. Good example.

NuGet has hundreds of those. And we just renamed our backlog to "Up For Grabs" to communicate that.

I meant the low-hanging fruit. Crossed messages.

big features need to have design signed off by core team, and probably code written by core team.

with enough design so that it's a matter of code

Hey I'm back to jabbr after one year

heh

I think marking things as issues the community can pick up on is a great idea. Gives people a place to start.

Yep. We should so this for glimpse as well.

Hoping on a plane to oz. ttyl

and going to mark it with this new tag

Check this... @dotnetjunky just created an acknowledgements.txt in the NuGet repo yesterday. I just added a link to it from http://nuget.codeplex.com. See it in the 2.3 release links. It has some awesome stuff in there.

LAter, @anthony.vanderhoorn and thanks for forgiving me for the cringe.

I'm thinking of removing dfowler from that list though

Okay, I'm going to go finish writing up my notes on the whole NuGet metadata issue that started this giant discussion.

@dfowler Did you see the NuGet blog post on our revised approach?

nope

switch tabs?

IE tabs

file a bug

http://blog.nuget.org/20130211/workflow-changes-for-codeplex-issues.html

what gets promoted?

i see

lol

@dotnetjunky The way we get more features in releases is to make sure they are rock solid in the feature branches. With very thorough testing in place. As you have volunteered to do, UI automation tests, etc. for full coverage. I expect we'll get there in time

must. sleep. later all.

later

Anyone else around?

Nope.

Am I correct in assuming that to support a self host Web API there would need to be a fair amount of work...

Not as much as you would think

Need to replace the HttpHandler with a message handler, seems like the first step

Right. I saw that in the Glimpse.ASPNet project

We would need to find a replacement for HttpContext....

and then dump that into Request.Properties.

yep

Cool, that gives me some other stuff to dig around in. thanks.

Right.

It's pretty impressive that core has no dependency on system.web

I can see what you are doing there...

my gut tells me it will be one of those tools that I will be could become dependent on.

I will.

What part of Canada you in?

Montreal

Cool beans

hey guys

Did I miss anything @nikmd23?

You feeling better @darrel_miller?

Ya I forgot to ask

I am. Good to be home

Good I'm glad to hear it

@anthony.vanderhoorn hey.. sorry just got some time available

yep

so, i think i owe Nick a

lol I'll tell him that

I have a few more commits to finish up the current master of testswarm, then I can just go into a stablization phase with it

and just some powershell to deploy.. or do you webhook into azure?

ok.. it just needs to get a webhook after the deployment is complete

I would have thought so

the wire up is pretty easy if you write your tests in a mvc app

I would be nice if it just works as a azure website

Nihao

So, a major thing is Microsoft is (on a broader scale) not working WITH the OSS community. I'm pretty sure that my views are shared quite across a whole bunch of "top oss" projects

yea that would be cool

MS is very eager to bring "community experts" into their realm when they build products

What does working with the community mean?

but it's not communicating anywhere near as well in the other direction

but to put it in top oss projects seems ok

I think there is a lot to be learnt from other communities

for instance

that said, I think .net hasn't evolved the same way

I am not suggesting we should simply keep things status quo

MS has reps from all the major oss web frameworks in both the web api and katana advisory boards

Yes and

In what sense?

well, take webapi

in the sense that MS takes takes takes but never gives back

Which existed before Nancy

they never once mentioend any alternatives

That is BS

I drove that effort

wine wine wine

@dfowler you kind always does this

everything else dies

That is such a victim statement

which is why your not really representative in this discussion

totally

people from the oss community have concerns

still

We were didn't promote them, but always acknowledged them

Hold on

i'd rather just not have you in this disussion

lol

We were always recognizing other efforts for web api

Whether we promoted them is a diff story

i've created hate

It is a ht t

it was just dormant

it is a hot topic

if we don't do oss we're evil

Fowler I disagree

lol

You should

But, I am saying the frustration is real

You and I both

Look let's just agree there are other things we can do

Well, that escalated quickly....

thats what im trying to solve, get ideas on how MS can help the community

We can feature articles on other frameworks on our .net properties

Just like we feature other community posts on add in

nuget helped, and at the same time VS templates crushed competition

so yeah

add ons for web API / mvc

VS templates artificially inflated MS picked packages

We can recognize the frameworks that the community recognizes

and then we wonder why jQuery and EF are the most downloaded?

from what i understood from jongalloway was that the numbers werne't updated for template installs

for ages MS refused empty projects

unless you count updates to the templates

Like putting the on asp.net/oss

thats an easy one

both are things I think we can do

we can pick some projects

@Buildstarted not from the installs but its easy to do update-package and get some downloads

That will help

There was an asp.net oss page on asp.net that listed tons of stuff on it, nobody cared

@davianfowlards ive never seen asp.net site share any information about non-core ms web stuff

you're on probation

the only time it has OSS is when its used with core MS stuff

I <3 Nancy too!

no kidding it is

As do I

compare it to 5 years ago

true

haha

Andreas showed it to me right after he wrote it

wow

but at this pace i'll die before we reach a fair level

it'll never be fair

Welcome back Andreas

yes fowler, for ever an ass *gets picture of a donkey*

fair != equal though =)

I think fair can be reached

equality cant

Let's focus

they want to have gurantees

@philliphaydon.com See http://asp.net/mvc/open-source - and that goes back a ways, see http://web.archive.org/web/20110720025125/http://www.asp.net/community/projects

i think we can all agree that in the current state, its unfair, and it most likely will always be unfair, but we can agree that MS can atleast help and make things better

what do you think we can do?

@philliphaydon.com Nobody's really noticed

Concretely

@davianfowlards i noticed, it was how i found blogengine.net when i first started blogging

MS supports OSS? MS is pretty much the only "major" company that doesn't support oss developers with a decent VS license

and please don't mention express because that's a bit of a licensing joke

what i dont understand is at the end of the day, to MS it doesnt matter if a company uses Nancy, or SS, or WebAPI, they sell VS licenses and Windows Server licenses, Azure subscriptions

spend years writing free software for the benifit of the entire community .. cold hand

@philliphaydon.com I agree with that

I think that's an important point

yea but

NO BUTS

what about what people want to use

you're wrong @dfowler

hey there

so vs licenses?

MS will get more from pushing the best framework for the job, rather than religously promoting it's own framework every time

thought i'd drop by

the number 1 thing MS needs to do is help generate exposure

So let's get some tactical things

I don't know if its feasible, but Microsoft could donate resources to .NET OSS projects

apparently i used to do OSS once upon a time

That are actionable

exposure would at least help give the community the oppertunity to choose themselves

I don't mean OSS projects lead by MS though

Ok, so let's say we start featuring OSS fwks along with web API / MVC, will that help?

Demis made a good comment here -> http://datachomp.com/archives/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-deadlocks/#comment-826228431

@Simon67 we don't lead redis

Is that a good first step?

@gblock any step is a good first step

we can't promote EVERYTHING

lol

well you have shitty commercial stuff as well

let the community decide

http://codebetter.com/sebastienlambla/2012/04/05/microsoft-and-open-source-2/

how do you vote on what you don't know about

thing is.. you and I can't decide if something is shitty or not

theres enough people who support lots of big and small OSS projects that we can pick stuff

there's like 2 million devs that don't read your blogs

i might think something is shitty but it helps build a business for someone else

I mean OSS @thecodejunkie

and it's the best thing since slices bread too them

2000 people isn't alot

agreed on that

what if MS had people attend their conferences

Switching to my laptop, cannot keep up on ipad

I *think* everything applies to MS as it did a year ago, at least on the .net side of things

@dfowler the community will grow with exposure

we need to promote people contributing to projects and that giving back is what is needed to make the community thrive

it's "MS sanctioned"

that'll definitly help build creditiblity for OSS in the .net community

thats my opinion

which is pretty much every space

theres no reason why compeditors can't compete with what MS builds

where there's a lot of devs

no problem with competitors

"oh we need an orm.. lets build EF"

the problem is promoting it

look at Sinatra and Rails, they are both open source and have equal footing dispite rails being more popular

screw NH and the likes

they ar eboth well known

sorry i keep dropping in and out, connection here is rubbish

if you have one

Why would any for-profit company market alternatives to their own frameworks? It makes no sense...

that's how it's been David

MS steps in an competes in high activity areas

soemthing we did with MS UK:

so saying its should jsut be where it fills a gap is a bit weak

on the side of one of their event, we organized an OSS Fest with 4 talks back to back on the best of OSS

6 months down the road MS will have "a thing" in that space

Microsoft provided the room and the marketing support as part of their main event, we provided the speakers and editorial line

@serialseb1 thats a good idea

@sethjuarez MS makes no money from webapi or mvc, but if OSS bought in more developers making more software, thats more licenses and subcription sales for MS

now that's where MS can make a difference, on the marketing. You can keep most of everything else, Id rather not support the majority of MS users, they're hell to deal with

we invest in mvc and webapi

cause Nancy is better

nobody is saying you should do that

why would we suggest alternatives

look

either MS wants an oss comunity or it doesnt

I'm asking an honest question

you can't have the cake and eat it

dilemma

back again

dfowler you suggest laternatives because everyone wins when you show alternatives

only faster

problem is, it's not web api vs nancy

if you compete all over the place and you don't want to help promote

more and more good developers are leaving .NET because of MS killing OSS

@serialseb1 showing alternatives in a different forum

promote the ecosystem not the frameworks? you don't get money for webapi right @dfowler?

its "as well" for most companies

then the community is effectivly a still born

so here's my perspective

every year i see more devs moving to Ruby and other more open communities

@Buildstarted its not about money

OSS is good for .NET and critical

we invest

you get exposure for your tools, but you get the same with nancy

and ultimately people make their choices

@phillyphaydon.com they sell VS. So any in house framework will have VS extensibility built in....

two more reasons: MS yields great power and should give back to the community for what it often takes without asking.

monkey space

and I think its perfectly doable that we can feature other efforts

can't

second, great devs will fuck off from the paltform if MS is competing with them all the time without giving back

invited, but probably not

thought it would be later int he year

@dfowler url?

like last year

:popcorn:

http://monkeyspace.org/

so anyway

"second, great devs will fuck off from the paltform if MS is competing with them all the time without giving back" +1

it's *exactly* the same relationship as with vendors you compete against, that you have managed to find a footing for so far. No reason why OSS should be any different.

i mean we can stop making frameworks

we can start to feature content along side our asp.net content

@serialseb1 that's almost true, great devs are already fucking off

damn, can't go to illinois...when is anyone going to have a conference in los angeles?

Jeff Atwood love Ruby now

well if MS tries to mak the best of it that's enough for me. So far MS has done the none of it part quite well, that's what infuriated me back in the days.

its good

it's when there's a monopoly that swallows all competition

@serialseb1 I know brah, I did nuget

that's not healthy for the ecosystem

I'll give you two quotes from two PMs from asp.net, i won't mention names, that explain exactly the attitude im talking about:

@serialseb1 and I know you hate me for it

"We're stepping on your feet, we know, we're big, it happens"

and "We don't owe anyone anything, it's OSS"

I don't think that's a shared attitude

@dfowler and @gblock you both have some pull .. why not do the "advisory" thing for oss? have us over to redmon to talk about it

there are a great number of audiences for .net; the audience we (MS) make money off is largely the Enterprise. Very many of those, and that tends to coincide with the biggest payers, will not touch unsupported frameworks with a 30 foot pole.

now now david, I had reasons to resent part of the nuget process for reasons that you probably never were told about and have nothing to do with building nuget or not.

@dfowler "why would we suggest alternatives" e.g. if MS write an article showing how to achieve something more easily with web framework X rather than web API, won't MS benefit more from this? it will improve the eco system more and hence, use of the MS revenue generators (VS, OS, etc.)

plus, hate is a big word, I tend to own exclusive rights on drama.net

@TheCodeJunkie it's just a matter of finding time

@gblock august is good for me

@adamral.ph MS doesn't have to write it

@adamral.ph sure it benefits MS but MS is a huge company and if the framework is generally better we might even decide to de emphasize what we have

sure, don't have to, but could

@adamral.ph the community can and we can feature it

that's fair

xunit isnt oss

?

community

@dfowler let's leave nuget aside it's not relevant. If you want to talk about that and clear the air gimme a phone call we can chat. I don't hate you.

@adamral.ph I don't think MS writing it is the issue.

yay

listen

@adamral.ph "promote" can be interpereted differently

I think a simple "DId you know you can also run X on .net, isnt the ecosystem brilliant?"

but they need to know about X and Z to pick the best one for their needs

@adamral.ph do I think all our evangelists will suddenly promote Nancy?

I mean msdn mag was having those columns, do they still run?

@serialseb1 they do

@gblock ok, 'feature' not promote

@adamral.ph probably doubtful, though some might and probably do today.

and reach a huge auidence

even if MS promotes us, people will still pick a 'safe' option of MS, but atleast we have more exposure to those who haven't heard of us

@adamral.ph feature I think is very reasonable

cool

@philliphaydon.com nothing you can do about people

@adamral.ph and I am pushing on making this happen

@philliphaydon.com that takes time to change

@adamral.ph hanselman has always been a fan of featuring

what @clemensv said is very true

@adamral.ph but we can go beyond his blog

where is the 24/7 on-call support, guys?

@gblock to be honest .. too small and too targeted audience

I think it's a question of collaboration. If I'm invited to collaborate on what MS does, know about it in advance, I can pilot my own OSS projects much more efectively. And I can be friendly with the team. THat's invaluable.

@clemensv not even MS has that

@gblock that's great to hear that you'r pushing it and yes, hanselman does indeed, good to know you want to take things further

ppl that listen to hanselminutes already dabble in the black arts of non-MS stuff

@adamral.ph as to organizations and OSS yes there are many that are allergic

yes. I am on call this very moment

@serialseb1 we kinda did that with webapi and now the katana stuff

Nancy's been on all the major .net podcasts, sometimes twice..

But that is also changing

all 8 world wide DCs for service bus and the server

I know of many orgs, take Turner for instance

I mean if you look at katana, it's all being driven by .NET OSS web frameworks

I could still walk up to 100pp att öredev and get a "huh?" =)

@gblock an MS feature would certainly help persuasion of certain IT manager

that are very open now to using OSS, and are ok with lack of support

otherwise we'd end up with another ASP.NET

they are using node, it basically goes with the territory

@dfowler yes, and the aspinsiders stuff. I have no complain on that part. How do you scale from "this nagging serialseb" to "the community of OSS developers that build on our platform"

but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of our stakeholders are probably NOT in that place

turner doesn't count - that's donwb

@dfowler advisors != OSS or NOT

@dfowler you understand it wrong

@dfowler it's about having a focused conversation, not about secrecy

I think it's important to understand that people are obviously feeling a pinch and are upset by previous behaviours, so until this is understood and accepted by MS, it's hard to move forward. Again, I'm not taking my case as an example as I have priviledged access to a lot of stuff, but it hasn't been because I was nice, nor has it been getting me a lot of love from the guys in redmond.

lol no

@dfowler if it is completely open you have a very high signal to noise ratio can can't get anything done

@dfowler having a forum is orthagonal

@dfowler we have node advisors and we have node github, they both server a purpose

How is xunit not OSS?

@dfowler that's fine

to each his own

@dfowler most OSS projects have backchannels of backbone communication between a small pack of devs, be it email, phone or conferences

@dfowler you'll find far and few projects that are singlehandedly decided and designed by committee or without any help

there's no competition to invite to a signalr advisory board

@dfowler I am sorry you hate them, but you are entitled

yeah

@dfowler I have ran about 5 of them all of which showed tremendous value

lol

@dfowler which is why I keep doing them

david hates kittens too

we can't trust his judgments

@dfowler but doing them is orthagonal to being transparent and OSS

how can you hate kittens

thought

just compare .net oss to "pick a framework"

they are so cute

@dfowler crowd sourcing has pros and cons

Gu wearing a Nancy t-shirt ont he next //BUILD keynote?

I'll print a read polo

and look at who is typing

Gu doing all his demos with Nancy!

@dfowler yeah and spent tons of time processing signal over noise

@philliphaydon.com baby steps.. baby steps..

haha

@gblock false

@dfowler why do we even have this chat room then? Why don't we just be in one room?

@dfowler why do you have private rooms in SignalR again?

i would love to have a bar fight with fowler

@gblock you mean jabbr

I'll do a transatlantic flight with Seb.. no worries =D

@dfowler different groups tend to have different skillsets, perspectives and bandwidth

@dfowler jabbr yes

@dfowler anyway, we can stop debating this

yes thats why we have insiders

we tend to have small invite-only ReST sympnosiums with some of the experts in the domain to reduce the discussions about basics and fundamentals for a few days so we can move together forward

to get early feedback

@dfowler you can continue to hate them, and I'll continue using them if both the community and the product find the helpful

insiders != advisory board

insiders and advisors are dfiferent

yea yea

=D

that doesnt remove the value of open conversations we have with all skillsets on the side

im not sure why so many people seem to think promoting oss frameworks is MS's job.

ooooo

@WilliamBZA its not about making it their job

Hanselman will narrate and take twitter questions

@serialseb1 but I don't see why you need to pick people, the ones that are interested just happen to form the committee

we need to erase ms

different userbase

yeah and Java had the JCP, let's not repeat that

@dfowler in certain domains popularity contests in the wide open don't open up the experts on a subject

java is an example

@serialseb1 don't experts gravitate towards the subject tho

but you got PHP, Ruby and many more

katana for e.g.

all the other platforms target different types of devs. that's just how it is

look how much churn owin went through

and i think OSS helps MS overall, and think MS should help us

@dfowler katana has advisors. I guess you hate those?

@dfowler it depends. I'm an expert in rest and i very seldomly read the webapi board these days, the level of conversation has gravitated towards concerns that are either trivial or require of me way too much time to counter

in the next call

some platforms are more favoured by those kind of devs who look at other frameworks

I think @dfowler hates anyone who isnt his wife

@serialseb1 right so its not useful sometimes

just the same as some platforms encourage more code security than others

@dfowler I am glad we've moved clear off MS and OSS to advisory boards!

@dfowler and as i'm not paid for any of this free, pro bono support work i do for MS, I tend to provide contributions where they're going to have the most impact with the least amount possible fo work

@WilliamBZA if MS helps promote OSS, MS platforms will still be leagues ahead of the OSS community, but atleast we get more exposure

@dfowler they don't right now for my domain of expertise, they certainly did at the beginning. Things change, people change and what is good for web api now is not something i find relevant to my domain anymore.

that's the race horse I would bet on

@serialseb1 be as it may that advisory boards are evil, your involvement was very appreciated

Is more exposure to alternative OSS projects really the root of the problem? Isn't the root of the problem that most .NET devs don't "do" open source, ie they don't produce, contribute, OR consume it?

@dsplaisted it's a chicken and egg problem

@dsplaisted yes yes yes, at least, i think thats it

I'm trying to do a 1 day conf with the major .net oss web frameworks

but they feed each other

looks like we might hit 2 cities in scandinavia

@TheCodeJunkie can signalr come?

@dsplaisted For example, Microsoft's adoption / promotion of jQuery made jQuery OK for many orgs

to respond to will earlier: MS ought to get involved because we promote their platform, we provide time to help them design some of their stuff, and sometimes it'd be nice if the door went both ways for more people.

MS sponsor a US tour?

I personally think the company is in a better position than it used to be, less arrogant and self-centred, but there is still a lot of work to do before we get to a heterogenous marketplace where MS can compete *and* support / co-market at the same time.

in closing, the katana work i've dropped the ball on but i was a bit busy with other things. I will have a look soon though.

@serialseb1 for a number of reasons

@serialseb1 it's awesome

katana is shaping up nice

@dfowler advisory board and all

still say MS has yet to prove itself there though

I really like the idea of an "OSS day" or something at Microsoft conferences... that helps solve both the chicken and the egg I think

and wont be able too until it's picked up pace for them

@gblock well to be fair, I'm happy MS taking care of the 90% long tail, those users are horrible to support.

@TheCodeJunkie or are you implying more?

so how does outercurve fit into this discussion?

not what I am saying

it doesnt

@serialseb1 lol!

right now Katana is implementing the OWIN spec

yup

@TheCodeJunkie yes, which has finally settled to a more sane place

but until it's been proven that MS business needs won't take precedence in a v2 I'm not convinced

@TheCodeJunkie that one could actually um write a chapter about

heh

@TheCodeJunkie V2 of Katana you mean?

by the way guys, the owin name, branding and domain names are still my property. If it's gonna be settlign on that name that's something we ought to sort out.

yes

@serialseb1 you did name it, I remember

@serialseb1 the archives are there

lets talk about katana in 2 years

@dsplaisted anglebrackets was having some focus on OSS. will be interesting to see what's involved and what comes out of it

just cause its OSS doesn't mean copyright issues are waived without licenses

it'll be system.web v2

and see if it's still driven by the OWIN spec or if MS made it theirs

@TheCodeJunkie I pressed a few buttons of yours tonight...hopefully no harm done

Im like a switch board

lol

many buttens =D

@shifty anglebrackets sounds good but I think that's just Hanselman and friends, nothing officially MSFT...

@TheCodeJunkie As am I

buttons

the thing is

@dsplaisted it's a start

@TheCodeJunkie I do think Nancy is awesome

msft as bad as it is

@TheCodeJunkie and not just saying that....super elegant

we can dedicate full time resources to stuff

Angelbrackets is non-MS yes

dfowler it's also your guys that drove it to the grave a couple of times.

throwing people at stuff

I think there are many different players here and Nancy isn't the only one affected... multiple frameworks/tools are and its a complex ecosystem

In the OSS heavy communities, such as Ruby and Python, there isn't anyone who's responsible for promoting the frameworks. There's no obligation. It's survival of the fittest. And the community is responsible for making sure that the wheat is separated from the chaff. MS provides an excellent (and improving month-on-month) ecosystem for OSS, but if they took a more active involvement in pushing certain community projects, wouldn't that be a bigger problem? Why push Nancy and not Monorail? Why push petapoco and not subsonic? I honestly don't think that's appropriate for them to do..

u could've driven it to completion in other ways though =D

@serialseb1 well not Msft, louis

@dfowler fair point

lol

@dfowler rigth

but

here's a though

MS pays me for a month to write Nancy documentation =D

@dfowler well there was not just one person

full time

@dfowler it needed some more focus

well I don't do name calling anymore, been told it's bad for karma. I agree that MS resources can help. How those are used in combination with the community is an area of interesting research I'd think.

man, those docs would rock =D

@TheCodeJunkie let me know how that goes

what @mikegeyser says

I'd like to see the ISV buddy program back but for OSS

I think the best thing to do

The question is @thecodejunkue why you as opposed to any other oss tool

?

that way we don;t have to pick anything

@dfowler I think feature vs promote

@anthony.vanderhoorn who said I'm poosed to any other oss tool?

you get one guy that is assigned to help you out on your OSS project (for projects that have reached a certain size) and try and find who to talk to, solve issues and navigate the MS internals. And sometimes do the language conversion.

feature exactly

@dfowler I don't think we will "promote"

@dfowler just like I don't expect Nancy to promote

@thecodejunkie MS pays me for a month to write Nancy documentation =D

I am just talking to 5+ System Integrators about a brand new OSS effort around annoying middleware plumbing and they're all excited

for gods sake, I'm organising a conference where I've invited the creators of Fuby, OpenRasta, Simple.Web and ServiceStack =)

@dfowler we can feature, we can recognize

the goal is not for us to run it

fubu*

but to initiate it

fuby lol

Fuby is ruby version of Fubu

bhahahhahahahahaha

www.fubymvc.com

I'm sure that's taken

@TheCodeJunkie so you'd choose Fuby over Fubu? #sacrelidge

lol

The best is to come though: FuBj, the javascript edition

Fujs

lol

add an OSS show on channel9?

ooo

i like that idea

that's an interesting idea

clicked the like button

yes

@clemensv AH! So you ARE going to take over NServicebus!

@dfowler will do that now

I'll let you know if @gblock actually sends email

ye

@molokai - nservicebus is a commercial product and dedicedly not OSS

I'm waiting brah

@dfowler sending mail is not a problem for me

since MS is good at throwing people at problems: throw people at the cloning machine problem, clone 25 hanselmans, and get them all to keep featuring OSS projects

@dfowler it's too much mail

may I also suggest opening contact channels with OSS people. Especially if team members borderline insult them in team meetings in redmond. Prevent escalation of tension due to no communication channel being opened?

minor gripe: don't call it "OSS day" - call it "community day"

let's foster interactions

@clemensv True.... but it is about time MS did come up with some middleware in that space

and stop playing us-versus-them

when someone mentioned stage instead of promote basically means some avenue where OSS can push stuff to rather than someone "collecting" projects to promote? leaves responsibility in oss projects hands?

brb

@molokai - it's also not in the crosshairs

I'm happy to chat on the phone on community involvement for OSS and MS, I organized a lot of those activities with MS UK when they had a budget

I guess I will just have to wait and see what you and those 5 come up with

@molokai - there is a huge gaping hole between the platform features and $2K/.core BizTalk

sent

@clemensv I like what you are saying!

to the head of C(

skype?

of C9

send me email - I'll be happy to share more details. We're keeping the discussions private for the next few weeks just in order to make sure we have a well understood charter

Jabbr? what about IRC?

i tend to avoid long-running textual conversations, i prefer by far a webcam, a phone line and a chat.

@serialseb1 +1 for skype

@dfowler http://www.ski-epic.com/gifs/g007_citizen_kane_slow_clap.gif

that was for @molokai - sorry

@serialseb1 or oovoo

hangout!

live meeting?

you all suck

email!

btw @gblock didn't send the email yet

lync!

lol

@clemensv Gotcha!

d gblock .

back

@dfowler why not

nah doesn't work that does

lol